[Kunal Khemka] Hi Josh, thanks for this opportunity to interview you. I first learned about you in an article SJX wrote on the newly launched JN Shapiro; it was 2017 or 2018. And then we crossed paths on Instagram and have chatted on and off.
Please tell me a bit about yourself. And the question I have always wanted to ask you: how does a School Principal decide to become a Part-Time Watchmaker? Is it true that the schoolkids used to give their watches to you for repair?
[Josh Shapiro] Great question! In 2011 I had just started my career in administration and on the side, I started to learn watchmaking as a hobby. Every year I dove deeper and deeper into watchmaking until 2015 When I started making dials for other people professionally. Every year after that I started reducing my role in education and spending more time at Watchmaking. The 2020-21 School year was my last year in education, and since then I have been full-time working on my brand.
[KK] Did you have an interest in watches and clocks when growing up? How did the interest and desire in horology come about? Which watchmakers and watch brands have been your biggest source of inspiration? Either from the past or current. Did you receive any formal or self-taught training in watchmaking?
[JS] My father and grandfather were machinists. Every summer vacation I would be at the shop learning from them. I always had a deep appreciation for metals and how they can be transformed. Once I was in high school, I stopped going to the shop during the summer. In college I pursued a Bachelors and Masters in History and went into education. Once I got married in 2011, I really got the urge to return to my roots and start working with metal again. I started skeletonizing watches which was a great outlet for my budding interest in watchmaking, but also metal manipulation. I took the British Horological Institutes distance learning course. However instead of flying to the UK to complete my exams, I used the money to buy my first Guilloche machines!
Easily George Daniels and Roger Smith are the two biggest influencers in the beginning. George Daniels “Watchmaking” has been the bible for me. It’s a reference that every watchmaker who is actually making parts can find useful at any stage in their career. Roger Smith was influential because I saw that someone can start from scratch, make a watch, and build a brand and career around it. David Walter the great clockmaker and watchmaker from Santa Barbara has also been a huge influence and inspiration. I have done a lot of work for him but have also learned a tremendous amount from him. He is one of the best living horologists and extremely kind and generous with his time and knowledge.
[KK] And, what attracted you to your style of Dress watch with Guilloche? Why Guilloche in particular? And how and where did you learn to be a Guillocheur?
[JS] Guilloche dials have been around longer than Breguet. The first guilloche dial was done in Switzerland in the 1680s. Almost 100 years before Breguet. I find the history and aesthetics of guilloche mesmerizing. As a history major, I can appreciate that the way I engrave my dials is almost identical to someone working from the 1680s. No electricity and majesty of using the machine guided by touch to create something stunning.
There are no schools for Guilloche. In Switzerland, the big brands like Swatch and Metalem will teach new employees the trade. In the US there are a lot of hobbyist but almost no professionals. That means one has to be self-taught. There are some books on the subject, but it is one of those skills that just require a lot of hands-on practice and always being humble enough to see how one can improve.
I think I was attracted to Guilloche because of its requirement for high attention to detail, working with metal, but also learning how to restore and use these old machines. My Rose Engine and Straight-line machines are anywhere from 70-130 years old. There is no place to buy spare parts. One has to make them, and whatever other accessories needed. These means the Guillocheur also needs to be a machinist.
[KK] Please elaborate on your choice of movement. You could have chosen simpler less-expensive movements. But you choose a (relative) high-end one.
[JS] I might be mistaken but I believe I chose the most expensive and high-end manual wind movement that can be bought. Simply, I wanted a beautiful movement from an independent that matched the quality of my dials. Lang & Heyne’s UWD movement fits that description, and it has been a great partnership. They are now done producing those movements, which worked out nicely for me as we have been actively working on our own in-house movement for a while now.
This movement will be special because nearly every component will be made within the walls of our workshop. We have invested over $2 million into equipment over the years and are extremely excited for this next stage.
It should be noted that most Independents with the exception of Smith, Voutilainen, and Pages outsource their movements to sub-contractors. Many do not even finish their “in house” movements in their own workshop and subcontract that as well. I feel it’s a shame that there isn’t more transparency in our industry, but we are proud of how much we are actually doing in our own shop.
[KK] Who is your typical customer?
[JS] Most of my Customers are middle aged Males. They are either Investors, Doctors, or lawyers. Almost all of them own a Journe, interestingly enough. It seems that FPJ is the gateway into other independents for many collectors.
[KK] When did you decide to leave being a School Principal and make JN Shapiro full time? What led to this?
[JS] June 2021 I left education. I had been in education professionally since I was 18, and called it quits at 36. So exactly half of my life is in education. I loved it, but it was keeping me from fully dedicating myself to watchmaking. I am sure I will eventually return to education. I used to be a pole vault coach and loved that dearly. That will probably be my next job in education for fun.
[KK] Also, based on what I read recently; you have created the ability to make your own cases in-house. What led to this? And I also believe a Tantalum case? I know that Tantalum is an extremely difficult material to work with. And FP Journe’s Chrometre Bleu is one of the more famous watches with a Tantalum case. For me this is a significant achievement for JN Shapiro.
So, are all your cases made in-house?
[JS] They are now. All my gold, platinum and stainless-steel cases were by HF Bauer- Astrath in Germany. They were a fantastic supplier. All Tantalum and Titanium cases have since been made by us in house. The crowns have been made by my friend and horologist James Lamb, who recently launched his own brand.
Originally, I was going to have my tantalum cases made by a supplier. When I saw that price, I realized it made a lot more fiscal sense and would bring a lot more prestige to the brand if we made them ourselves. A year and half a million dollars later we pulled it off. Tantalum is not easy to say the least. Machining the material is extremely expensive and difficult, and finishing tantalum is about 10x more difficult than gold or steel. What may take 15 minutes to do in steel can take 4 hours in tantalum.
However, it has been worth it as we are the first company outside of Switzerland to manufacture our own tantalum cases.
[KK] How long does it take to craft one JN Shapiro timepiece? Is it possible to order a bespoke JN Shapiro timepiece?
[JS] We are all sold out now on the Infinity Series. The next line of watches will be launched towards the end of 2022. Our in-house movement based project. I am accepting very small place holder deposits for that project, but no other watches are available right now.
It takes about 150 hours to complete one watch. When this was just me it was a huge undertaking. As the business grew, I added more employees to split that work load. This has enabled us to complete a lot more watches. In the first two years of the Infinity Series, we completed 17 watches. In the last 1.5 years we have completed 45 watches and are close to completion on another 26 for the tantalum limited edition. Not to mention numerous side projects like the Habring/Massena Lab collaboration.
[KK] How many watches do you craft per year? And how many employees and watchmakers make up JN Shapiro today?
[JS] We have 4 Watchmakers in addition to myself and are actively working to add more.
[KK] What sales channel do you rely on? I know IG and word-of-mouth helps a great deal in making potential customers aware of JN Shapiro. But how does one purchase a JN Shapiro?
[JS] I sell directly to customers. People email me and I respond! I have used Jeremy Oster in Denver Colorado as well to sell some watches.
[KK] What is next for the brand? Any plans of introducing another model? Maybe a lady’s model?
[JS] The next watch is an in-house manual wind movement- time only. We are also working on a tourbillon moonphase for 2022. The manual wind movement based watch will be 38mm and I already have one female customer for that. she also owns an Infinity series. She is my only female customer so far though! 87 men and 1 woman.
[KK] What are your thoughts on the current desire of ‘hype watches’? Especially steel sports models from select brands.
[JS] It is fantastic for my business and other independents. A lot of people do not buy into the hype and look for other value in watchmaking. I would say it is silly for people to pay a premium for hype watches, but then again, all mechanical watches are a “hype” in the sense that they are a luxury item. A $20 quartz watch tells great time. Watch collectors like mechanical watches because they tell a story. That story could be the craftsmanship that goes into the watch, or the perceived status they will achieve by owning a steel sports watch.
[KK] As an observer, watchmakers from watchmaking backgrounds in Switzerland and elsewhere, have begun microbrands which follow a less risky and simpler design aesthetic and use simpler movements. You on the other hand, are self-trained in Guilloche and decided to use a high-end German Movement from the start (from the same company which provides movements to Lang & Hayne.) And all this as a part time watchmaker from California, where you have no ecosystem in watchmaking. And now you can create your own cases, including in Tantalum. Your journey was riskier and quite daring, and you must be applauded for this. Today you are among the ‘hottest’ and ‘most desirable’ of independents. I liken to you to Pagani Automobiles, where the craftsmanship is exquisite, yet they receive a bespoke engine from AMG. All the best to you for your hugely impressive brand.
[JS] Thanks Kunal. I appreciate you taking the time to interview me and ask such insightful questions. Watchmaking is an incredibly deep and meaningful career. There is almost no end to what one can learn in the field. When we stop learning we stop growing, I feel that will never happen in watchmaking. I am very grateful that people enjoy the work I do, and that enables me and my watchmakers to support ourselves making beautiful timepieces.
